Nine police who surrounded an unarmed man at the East Perth watch house used a Taser on him 13 times even though he wasn't threatening them, the WA corruption watchdog has found.Perhaps. I'm certainly prepared to believe that and I don't have a problem with officers using tasers or even their sidearms to protect themselves or members of the public. And I'm even prepared to believe that the guy was somewhat short of a sainthood.
The Corruption and Crime Commission investigation was part of a wider examination of WA Police's use of Tasers since their introduction in 2007, the majority of which were found to be reasonable.
Police said they tried to arrest the man on a Bayswater street after complaints of a trespasser sniffing petrol from cars, but he fled. They later arrested him after he ran into a stationary car on Guildford Road. He allegedly collapsed and became violent, kicking two officers when he woke.On the other hand all he was doing was just sitting there saying he didn't want to be strip searched and wouldn't let go of the bench. Is the taser supposed to be a tool for protecting police officers in the field or is it okay to use it as a cattle prod to shock, literally, into submission anyone who's doing nothing worse than being a passive aggressive pain in the arse?
He was taken to the watch house, where police attempted to strip search him. Police said he had previously been convicted of a number of offences including assaulting police officers, resisting arrest and common assault.
"The man had been compliant, removing his belt and earring when requested by police officers. However, the man refused to comply with a strip search and held onto the armrest of the bench. One police officer kicked out at the man in an attempt to 'startle' him into letting go of the bench," the report said.Because to me that's what they look like they're doing (you may not find this easy watching).
Do you wanna go again? Do you wanna go again?I don't even want to watch it again, but in case you didn't that was said after he'd been shocked a few times, and it was by no means the last one he got. For Christ's sake, couldn't they have got two cops on each limb and gone from there? I mean what did police do before they could just repeatedly send electricity through people? Well, I suppose there was bouncing people off the cell floor, but surely they didn't do that to everyone. Still, I'm sure at least that was the worst and the interview was comforta...
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No, I don't want to go again. |
Joking aside I do seriously wonder how well I'd do in a police interview if I'd taken 13 shocks from tasers when they brought me in. After that I might be inclined to waive a solicitor, confess to pushing the iceberg in front of the Titanic and worry about court later... anything as long as it got me the fuck away from that bloody cop shop. I'm sure that wasn't the cops' intention but it's a possibility and it worries me, because if it can be done eventually some dodgy copper will do it. I'd hope that WA Police haven't got a single member who'd stoop that low but between tasering each other on purpose and maybe accidentally setting someone on fire they haven't exactly covered themselves in glory when it comes to taser use.
And the other thing is that this kind of thing is changing my opinion of tasers. I'm never slow to criticise the police but in principle I'm all for giving them the tools they need to enforce the law (getting rid of a lot of unnecessary and illiberal laws would be far more effective a way of tackling incidences of over the top policing). Up until recently I've felt that that includes tasers simply because they're a less lethal, usually non-lethal, alternative to using a gun. But the reason why I'm now no longer sure is that these controversial taser incidents seem to be happening more and more around the world and I'm wondering if a cop with a less lethal option than a gun will be more likely to use it. I read somewhere that we humans have a kind of built in acceptable level of risk and so the more safety features are on a car the less careful the driver will tend to be as a result of 'risk compensation'. Could the same thing apply to a cop choosing between a baton, a taser and a gun? Any reasonable person, and I believe most cops probably are reasonable people and quite possibly the cops in that video are too, would be extremely reluctant to pull the trigger of a gun aimed at someone, but would we be equally reluctant to pull the trigger of something which while undeniably unpleasant and painful only very rarely causes a fatality? I hope that I would be as hesitant to taser as I would to shoot but in all honesty I'm far from sure. And I'm not sorry that I'll probably never find out.
@AmbushPredator · 755 weeks ago
Two words - 'mission creep'. They do this a lot in the states, use it as a coercive device. And in situations where they'd NEVER pull a gun (because it would be hard to justify).
Got to admit, though, when you see what they sometimes have to put up with, it's hard to blame them. I think I'd keep my finger on the trigger until the batteries ran out and the perp was medium rare, if I was them...
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Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
microdave · 755 weeks ago
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-1316915/E...
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
Guest · 755 weeks ago
I also wonder if modern police forces attract people with certain personality traits, the very last type of people who should be policemen?
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
@AmbushPredator · 755 weeks ago
Looking at some of the teeny-tiny girlies walking the beat, they are never going to get the upper hand without a weapon.
My recent post Serious Threats Are Not Tackled With Hysterical Overreaction…
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
Still, at least nobody's giving tasers to PCSOs yet, eh?
adelaide girl · 755 weeks ago
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
I'm assuming one of the deaths you're referring to is Tony Bosevski. I'm holding off on that one until things become a bit clearer. A lot of things went on and the reports are contradictory at the moment: he was tasered, he wasn't tasered, he was hit on the head, he wasn't hit on the head, he'd had 2-3 beers, he'd been packing them away, etc etc. About the only thing everyone seems to agree on was that he got a face full of capsicum spray, and that stuff has been implicated in quite a few deaths itself. Like the taser it's generally very unpleasant but not lethal, but now and again it can combine with other factors, e.g. asthma, certain physical restraint techniques used by police, to cause death. I'll probably blog it when more is known but right now it seems we could plausibly point fingers at tasers, capsicum spray, or cops getting physical, yet until the PM is complete we can't say that he didn't have a pre-existing and undiagnosed condition that could have killed him waiting for a bus. Innocent until proven guilty must also apply to cops, and in a sense even capsicum spray and tasers, though if I was a betting man I'd say it'll probably turn out to be a combination of factors and the capsicum or the taser will come in for a lot of stick.
I missed the other taser related death you referred to but I'd be interested if you've got a link. I've got another taser type device blog semi-teed up so I'm interested in all things tasery at the moment.
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
Bucko · 755 weeks ago
I will never be happy with coppers carrying weapons that members of the public are not allowed to carry.
I'm not saying we should arm the public and then have then shoot coppers they don't like, I'm sinply saying the first option of defence should lie with the individual.
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Bucko · 755 weeks ago
Coppers prove time and again that they cannot be trusted to be better armed than the public.
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
If you've read my fairly long blog on gun laws you'll know where I stand on law abiding citizens and the availability of guns, although I didn't make this point about police being citizens too. But I certainly agree that if police are to remain no more than ordinary citizens whose occupation happens to be law enforcement, as traditionally they have always been, then anything they can be trusted with should be available to any other law abiding citizen (underline 'law abiding', natch).
However, I feel all this is a slightly separate issue from the more narrow question of whether police use of tasers is escalating from the initial intent to have alternative to shooting suspects and becoming something occasionally used as a cattle prod for human beings. That was all I was really getting at in this blog.
Bucko · 755 weeks ago
I was trying to say that I am not happy with coppers being armed with such weapons, even if they use them in defence of themselves or the public. Turning police officers into robocops with batman utility belts seems to elevate them in importance, above the general public and I think thats why incidents like this happen. If the law abiding were allowed to defend themselves and carry the same defensive weapons the police are, it would bring the police back down to the role of citizens with a specific job to do rather than some kind of overlords
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Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
Captain Ranty · 755 weeks ago
This is a "standing on the shoulders of giants moment.
I have nicked, reposted, and linked back to you.
We should be keeping a database of this shit. It is becoming far too prevalent.
Great post, thanks.
CR.
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
adelaide girl · 755 weeks ago
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
Stephen Brown · 755 weeks ago
The use of a fire-arm in a law enforcement situation requires that an investigation into the rectitude or otherwise of the discharge of the arm was warranted. This procedure tends to keep officers on the straight and narrow as far as fire-arm usage is concerned.
Usage of the Taser, classified as 'non-lethal' appears to have escaped the investigative net thus allowing officers to use the weapon indiscriminately. This is manifestly wrong. Each discharge of a Taser must be investigated with the same rigour as the discharging of a fire-arm.
The Custody Sergeant, present in the movie-clip, has an an awful lot to answer for. Why on Earth did he permit that many officers to be present? The maximum number of officers present is no more than three. Any more requires the recorded assent of the Custody Sergeant. Any usage of force MUST be recorded.
The Custody Sergeant should be facing prosecution, as should ALL of the officers involved in this disgraceful scene.
And I'm a retired police officer. I have NO sympathy for the thugs shown in this movie-clip.
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
Phil · 755 weeks ago
So, how's that expat stuff workin' out for ya now then ?
Angry_Exile 90p · 755 weeks ago
So the expat stuff is working out just fine, really. It's no utopia and some of the bureaucracy is pretty annoying (same can be sad for the UK though), and I have to say that Aussies in general are not the independent minded free spirited folk I thought they were, or certainly not as much. But for all its faults I still rate it above the country I left, which as I said doesn't really exist anymore anyway.
But of course none of that's what I moved here for in the first place. Life in Britain vs life in Oz really weren't a significant part of my decision - staying with Mrs Exile was nearly all of it. Had she been Austrian I'd probably be doing my ranting in Vienna and trying to get by in very fractured German.