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Cheers - AE

Friday, 5 August 2011

Hanging together

Despite the last post saying there'd be no blogging 'til after the weekend I'm going to make the time for a very brief blog on the topic of capital punishment, currently the subject of a reinstatement campaign by The Sun and Guido Fawkes. As usual it's a splitter, and in the blogosphere as well as day to day life. Some bloggers for whom I have a lot of respect - the Ambush Predator, Sue and Anna Raccoon, to name just three - are in favour of capital punishment while others who are equally estimable - such as Captain Ranty, Sadbutmadlad c/o The Raccoon's Arms virtual pub and ironically The Grim Reaper - are opposed to it. As I've written before (here and here, for instance) I'm very much in the opposed camp, and trying to put it beyond reach is one of the very few things that I think politicians have somehow managed to get right. Quite possibly by accident or for other motives but whether it's design or serendipity I'm not the slightest bit sorry about it.

Since this is supposed to be brief, at least by my normal prolix standard, I'm not going to go deeply into the reason for my opposition, which can be found on those links anyway, but I'll summarise it with a copy of a comment I left at Captain Ranty's an hour or so ago.
I say this time and time and time again: it simply astounds me that so many people who are so critical of the state - an entity that so many of us agree is corrupt, incapable of finding its arse with both hands and prone to abusing its authority if not acting ultra vires - are willing to give it back the power to kill its citizens. Fuck the criminal scum, a noose around the neck of the most evil man in the land is a potential noose around the neck of all.

Oh, you might be safe with a Cameramong or Millivanilli government but which of you death penalty supporters knows what kind of toad-licking swivel-eyed fucknuts you'll have for PM in 10, 15, 20+ years? For all we know right now the future could hold a Chancellor Sutcliffe or a British Mugabe, and why the hell would we want to make the bastard's job any easier? And I can't think of any democracy that hasn't elected a bastard at some stage and we all know that some have elected utter batsards, so there's really no reason to think it can't happen. In fact I'd bet that if you wait long enough it's almost inevitable.

If you love liberty the answer is straightforward: you must never, ever entrust the state with any power that you would not also be happy giving to a homicidal dictator.
It can be put even more succinctly than that (though clearly not by me). Old Slaughter, who doesn't even describe him as a libertarian but a "small government conservative", comments at Anna Racoon's blog:
... the death penalty is the ultimate symbol of the state's presumption of authority over our lives. I would find it incongruent with libertarianism to advocate such a policy.
Indeed, and I did leave a comment telling Old Slaughter him that I was going to nick that. Please don't hang me for it.

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Pat Nurse's avatar

Pat Nurse · 712 weeks ago

I agree AE. Murder is wrong and that doesn't make state murder right. The problem is that when the death penalty was abolished, citizens were still assured of the revenge and justice factor by the replacement of whole life prison sentences instead of a noose but what has since happened is that a murderer can now go free after 10 years. Making the worst criminals comfortable in jail, while ensuring that there is no real consequences for killing someone, means that the appetite for state murder has returned.
1 reply · active 712 weeks ago
Pat: nail, head, whack. Yes, undeniably there is a problem with inadequate sentencing. I can understand the argument among the legal profession that judges take into account the specifics of each case and blahblahblah, and I have a certain amount of qualified support for it. But it's a sad reality that in the UK judicial system there is a very high rate of repeat offending among a certain type of criminal. Not necessarily for a certain type of crime - most murderers do not kill again and not being a danger to the public don't even need to be locked up for life. The problem is - and this may be a feature of modern one-size-doesn't-fit-anyone government policies - that there's been a tendency to treat all murderers as the same and lump the dangerous ones in with the ones you can safely let out after a sentence long enough to serve as a suitable punishment. Hence a gang member who carefully plans a murder of a rival or who kills casually as a warning to others gets the same or nearly the same treatment as someone who murdered their spouse in a moment of madness and has been torturing themselves over it ever since. One is very unlikely to be a danger, one isn't, but when they both get let out early it's a problem. That needs to be fixed, no argument from me there, though the solutions are probably complicated and require either many more prison places, a different type of prison system which actually delivers lower reoffending rates rather than a lot of noise about them, or removing an awful lot of currently imprisonable offences to free up room for the bastards who really need to be kept locked up more or less permanently. A discussion of that is a whole post in itself so for now I'll just stick with the point that a state that can't be trusted not to abuse its powers and go back on its word over something like the smoking ban probably shouldn't be trusted with the death penalty.
AE,

I dispute that OS was more succinct.

The only line that you needed to write was this one:

"If you love liberty the answer is straightforward: you must never, ever entrust the state with any power that you would not also be happy giving to a homicidal dictator."

It really clinches the argument.

If only I were bright enough to have come up with it....

Thanks for the link too.

CR.
My recent post No Noose Is Good Noose
1 reply · active 712 weeks ago
It's a close variant of something I said at the end of my second death penalty blog last September, and I liked it so much I allowed the small ego trip of quoting myself and putting it in my own sidebar :) . I was trying to get away from the usual miscarriage of justice, barbarity, makes-us-all-killers-so-not-in-my-name arguments because for me they're secondary to my distrust of the entity which would wield the power. A state that passes a law like RIPA and then promptly abuses it - and it's not as if RIPA is the only example - should simply not be trusted with the death penalty, and democracy being what it is you can never be sure that a hypothetical trustworthy government would not one day be replaced by an untrustworthy one. In the process of blogging that popped into my head as a kind of rule of thumb for limiting the power of the state - if you wouldn't want a Stalin to do something then you shouldn't let a Ghandi do it either, because given enough time and a democracy it's almost inevitable that a Stalin will one day be in charge. That's the practical side of it - I think Old Slaughter's point about the death penalty being the state's ultimate authority over, and arguably even ownership of, our lives is the philosophical side.
All the debate and kerfuffle aside, I can't see what Guido hopes to achieve, other than - if they aren't debating this pointless issue - keeping the politicians from screwing up anything else.

After all, it doesn't matter what our MPs discuss - we simply can't do this, while the EU makes our laws for us.

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